United States(thanks Note..)

[Lip Job]

We can all talk about the what ifs of World War II, but what happened already happened and we cannot say for sure that one alternate outcome could occur.

While I do admit the Nazis did not have enough soldiers/supplies to push the Russians out of Moscow, as evidenced in the battle of Stalingrad where the Nazis were forced to retreat due to the extreme weather/lack of supplies we can see that neither side would have had an upper hand leading me to the conclusion that there would have been a stale mate between the Nazis and Russia.

I also believe that a stale mate would have occurred between the British and the Nazis.

But here comes the deal breaker which happens to be a small island nation called Japan. Had the United States not intervened or declared war on Japan, Japan would have easily conquered the entire Asian pacific. There was no other force in its way. What I mean is bye bye Australia, once the Asian pacific frontier would be taken care of, the alliance between Japan and Germany would have amounted to a two front attack on both sides of the Russian border. We can't forget in 1904 in the Russo Japanese War, when Japan easily defeated the Russians in crushing and embarrassing defeats. So Japan could have easily tag teamed with Germany following this plan: Japan from the east and the Germans from the west, that could have been the push the Nazis needed to conquer Moscow.

Once Russia is out for the count, then comes Britain which is a little bit trickier since it's much, much farther, but if there had been no US intervention then comes the invasion of both Japan and Germany which would have devastated the tiny island of Britain. The combination of the Luftwaffe and  Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service would have been the final straw and the Axis conquers everything except the Americas.

One can only imagine this scenario, but this COULD be a likely outcome had the US not fought both the Japanese and the Germans. Remember the Americans fought a two front war, the European front and the Pacific front which halted the Japanese machine from conquering more territories. So the indirect answer to your question is that YES England DID NEED the AMERICANS because without the Americans, the Japanese would have conquered the entire Asian Pacific, and the Germans would still occupy France/Poland/etc.

So you're lucky.

TL;dr

Without the Americans the Japanese would have conquered the Pacific, then tag teamed with the Germans to butt rape Russia and then continue on to conquer Britain. Because remember the Americans fought TWO fronts, Pacific and European to save your sorry ass. Say THANK YOU!

German + Japanese tag team.. More of this axis of evil bollocks. Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was probably "the worst" tragedy inflicted by one country upon another. So I definitely do not thank you for that.

[Smush]

I wouldn't say worst.

Had the Atomic Bombs not been dropped then a massive 1 million+ US soldiers would have had to invade Japan to take over Tokyo. The Japanese believed fighting to the death was the most honorable, so they would have fought with anything from poles,sticks,knives, any type of house hold weapon to the death. Bushido code. Look it up.

To die for the emperor.

Hundreds of thousands possibly into the millions would have died.

The US issued multiple warnings to Japan that something "BIG" would happen, face the consequences.

Tell me would you rather saves millions dropping two bombs?

Or would you rather let millions die just because you didn't want to drop the bomb?

Your choice.

[Sam|L A S T Dayz]

one of my best friends is american and he is an awesome guy. i have relatives who are american and they are great people too. i personally dont like the majority of americans because most of them are ignorant and obnoxious. i also dont like their beer.

[MikeQ]

This is what you need to know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzeumERLlBI&feature=related

Soviets won the war. The U.S. wanted them and the Germans to kill each other off.

[Smush]

No what you need to know is that the Soviets had a secret ally in Uruguay, their military is second to none.

That's why they survived.

AMIRIGHT?

[d72]

I wouldn't say worst.

Had the Atomic Bombs not been dropped then a massive 1 million+ US soldiers would have had to invade Japan to take over Tokyo. The Japanese believed fighting to the death was the most honorable, so they would have fought with anything from poles,sticks,knives, any type of house hold weapon to the death. Bushido code. Look it up.

To die for the emperor.

Hundreds of thousands possibly into the millions would have died.

The US issued multiple warnings to Japan that something "BIG" would happen, face the consequences.

Tell me would you rather saves millions dropping two bombs?

Or would you rather let millions die just because you didn't want to drop the bomb?

Your choice.

Gotta step in here, chief

Actually, as a matter of fact by the time the Nazis surrendered Japan was practically under seige and failing miserably on a dramatic scale; their supply routes were completely cut off by the US, and they were susceptible to mass nightly firebombings of many of their major cities, Tokyo being an example. Also, the Soviets were ready to go ahead and advance on Japan after the Nazis surrendered, but Truman was all like "Chill the fuck out, I got this"

It wasn't that the Japanese were resisting surrender and threatening the Americans at all; they weren't responding.

So essentially, Japan was already on the verge of losing whatever resistance they had left; the Americans just curbstomped them to make it official lol

[Adam|Note]

They hate but they damn well know they would be under Nazi rule if it wasnt for us.

Don't be silly, the soviet union was the superpower of the world in WW2, and they were on our side, and you think USA was the reason we won?

Soviet Union was with the Axis for most of the war? And the Soviet Union were getting their supplies from the Germans. The only reason the Nazis didnt win the war was because they split their forces to fight the United States on the Western front and the Soviet Union on the Eastern front.  Hitler did not listen to any of his commanders when they told him not to go into Russia. In the middle of Winter in Russia, the Germans were forced to stop their offensive because they could not move their supplies to the front lines and many of their soldiers died to disease. I read some where that more Germans died to disease than they did to actual Soviet Union fire. They were hardly a superpower in WWII.

And yes Britain would be either dead or under Nazi rule if the Americans did not come into the war. The Nazis were having great success against the British Navy which is suppose to be their strong point. They had nightly bombardments over the channel from France and eventually that would destroy the people in England. USA came into the war, completely moved Germany from France back to their country. Yes after the Americans took back France, the British had came back into the war and fought with us. But they would of been nothing if we never took the Nazis out of France.

Sorry for the history lesson.

England's other strong point was their radar which was one of their main defences against the Luftwaffe along with the fact that the RAF were dominant in their own air space when in dog fights with the Luftwaffe. Britain also being an island meant Hitler couldn't implement his famous Blitzkrieg technique, which was a huge factor towards his dominance of Europe. Last thing, the Nazi's did look like they would take Britain early on when they were bombing the main RAF airfields but Hitler decided to switch his attention to the major City's as he assumed Churchill would surrender under such circumstances, this did not work and the English made a recovery.

Along with all this is Hitler broke his agreement with Stalin, they were not allies when American support arrived and no doubt would've helped snuff out German threat.

Sorry but England didn't need you, you just saved a lot of casualties and time

Lip Job actually knows his history, props.

@ Scotty, you've just shown the "high and mighty" attitude of the US that the world hates. The US didn't dramatically change the first or second world war, you pretty much jumped in when the battle was won, both times.

[Lip Job]

I wouldn't say worst.

Had the Atomic Bombs not been dropped then a massive 1 million+ US soldiers would have had to invade Japan to take over Tokyo. The Japanese believed fighting to the death was the most honorable, so they would have fought with anything from poles,sticks,knives, any type of house hold weapon to the death. Bushido code. Look it up.

To die for the emperor.

Hundreds of thousands possibly into the millions would have died.

The US issued multiple warnings to Japan that something "BIG" would happen, face the consequences.

Tell me would you rather saves millions dropping two bombs?

Or would you rather let millions die just because you didn't want to drop the bomb?

Your choice.

What would you say was worse? And trying to justify it with bullshit like that is just the guilt racking up or the arrogance to think something so brutal was actually necessary. There were 150-250k casualties from the bombings alone and the effects of radiation sickness carry on from generation to generation still to this day. What America did was unforgivable and it's no wonder half the world see's you as evil when you come up with excuses like this

[Scotty|w0rst]

They hate but they damn well know they would be under Nazi rule if it wasnt for us.

Don't be silly, the soviet union was the superpower of the world in WW2, and they were on our side, and you think USA was the reason we won?

Soviet Union was with the Axis for most of the war? And the Soviet Union were getting their supplies from the Germans. The only reason the Nazis didnt win the war was because they split their forces to fight the United States on the Western front and the Soviet Union on the Eastern front.  Hitler did not listen to any of his commanders when they told him not to go into Russia. In the middle of Winter in Russia, the Germans were forced to stop their offensive because they could not move their supplies to the front lines and many of their soldiers died to disease. I read some where that more Germans died to disease than they did to actual Soviet Union fire. They were hardly a superpower in WWII.

And yes Britain would be either dead or under Nazi rule if the Americans did not come into the war. The Nazis were having great success against the British Navy which is suppose to be their strong point. They had nightly bombardments over the channel from France and eventually that would destroy the people in England. USA came into the war, completely moved Germany from France back to their country. Yes after the Americans took back France, the British had came back into the war and fought with us. But they would of been nothing if we never took the Nazis out of France.

Sorry for the history lesson.

England's other strong point was their radar which was one of their main defences against the Luftwaffe along with the fact that the RAF were dominant in their own air space when in dog fights with the Luftwaffe. Britain also being an island meant Hitler couldn't implement his famous Blitzkrieg technique, which was a huge factor towards his dominance of Europe. Last thing, the Nazi's did look like they would take Britain early on when they were bombing the main RAF airfields but Hitler decided to switch his attention to the major City's as he assumed Churchill would surrender under such circumstances, this did not work and the English made a recovery.

Along with all this is Hitler broke his agreement with Stalin, they were not allies when American support arrived and no doubt would've helped snuff out German threat.

Sorry but England didn't need you, you just saved a lot of casualties and time

Lip Job actually knows his history, props.

@ Scotty, you've just shown the "high and mighty" attitude of the US that the world hates. The US didn't dramatically change the first or second world war, you pretty much jumped in when the battle was won, both times.

Pretty funny because I would of loved to see how the British would of gotten the Nazis out of France all by themselves.

But its not like your country  never showed any "high and mighty" attitude. Stop being hypocritical.

But the Nuke was a pretty much a message to the world "dont fuck with our homeland."

[Lip Job]

A message to the world "We're fucking idiots, hate us please"

[TJ]

We are all equally retarded...

[Gareth l Rare]

We are all equally retarded...

Yet we love <3 each other

/thread..... allow this petty arguing. Facts are facts but no one really knows what the outcome would be.

You can debate among yourself like some retarded chimps in a science lab but at the end of the day, your still a retarded chimp throwing their fesies at one another regardless whos right or wrong.

[Lip Job]

We are all equally retarded...

Yet we love <3 each other

/thread..... allow this petty arguing. Facts are facts but no one really knows what the outcome would be.

You can debate among yourself like some retarded chimps in a science lab but at the end of the day, your still a retarded chimp throwing their fesies at one another regardless whos right or wrong.

/Rare's Life Lessons ;)

[Mikey`]

all of you who don't live in america, how many americans do you actually know? and no, don't count people in foe, or in your clan, or anyone you meet online.  only people you really know.  is that how you get your opinion from ALL of america?  or do you get your opinions from media, our government officials, or actions in wartime?  its stupid to try to judge a whole country on the basis of stupid shit like that. i'm with you when i say i hate the "we're teh best in teh world" attitude that some americans have, when frankly, thats not true right now considering we're in debt trillions to other countrys, but that's some americans, not a whole freaken country.

[Gareth l Rare]

^someones getting stressy?

And i hate essex because every time i go there all i see is bla bla bla

only decent person i no from there is my ex's nan and chris... although he's a E-cunt

[TJ]

all of you who don't live in america, how many americans do you actually know? and no, don't count people in foe, or in your clan, or anyone you meet online.  only people you really know.  is that how you get your opinion from ALL of america?  or do you get your opinions from media, our government officials, or actions in wartime?  its stupid to try to judge a whole country on the basis of stupid shit like that. i'm with you when i say i hate the "we're teh best in teh world" attitude that some americans have, when frankly, thats not true right now considering we're in debt trillions to other countrys China, but that's some americans, not a whole freaken country.

[SkidooosH]

besides all this WWII bull shit that nobody cares about. let's get back to the topic at hand.

America makes the best music and that is undeniable. unfortunately, we also know how to make the worst music...

[Gareth l Rare]

besides all this WWII bull shit that nobody cares about. let's get back to the topic at hand.

America makes the best music and that is undeniable. unfortunately, we also know how to make the worst music...

Well we got a tv channel called "Dave"

so fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you <3

[gfdgfd]

Exactly, couldn't live without my Mock the Week, and Top Gear repeats, they even have a Dave +1 for the people who think 'FUCK I MISSED THAT REPEAT THAT I'VE SEEN 54 TIMES! FUCK! Oh wait, fuck me in the ass, there's a Dave +1, my life is complete!'

[Smush]

I wouldn't say worst.

Had the Atomic Bombs not been dropped then a massive 1 million+ US soldiers would have had to invade Japan to take over Tokyo. The Japanese believed fighting to the death was the most honorable, so they would have fought with anything from poles,sticks,knives, any type of house hold weapon to the death. Bushido code. Look it up.

To die for the emperor.

Hundreds of thousands possibly into the millions would have died.

The US issued multiple warnings to Japan that something "BIG" would happen, face the consequences.

Tell me would you rather saves millions dropping two bombs?

Or would you rather let millions die just because you didn't want to drop the bomb?

Your choice.

Gotta step in here, chief

Actually, as a matter of fact by the time the Nazis surrendered Japan was practically under seige and failing miserably on a dramatic scale; their supply routes were completely cut off by the US, and they were susceptible to mass nightly firebombings of many of their major cities, Tokyo being an example. Also, the Soviets were ready to go ahead and advance on Japan after the Nazis surrendered, but Truman was all like "Chill the fuck out, I got this"

It wasn't that the Japanese were resisting surrender and threatening the Americans at all; they weren't responding.

So essentially, Japan was already on the verge of losing whatever resistance they had left; the Americans just curbstomped them to make it official lol

Naw. They would've most likely fought to death. Like I said, see the Bushido code and that was the kind of mentality the citizens of Japan had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

^ This is Operation Curb Stomp. The planned invasion of Japan, mass casualties, WAY MORE than the atomic bombs casualties combined. What's the difference between the fire bombings of Tokyo and the atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The fire bombings in Tokyo killed more people immediately than the bombs casualties combined. We can talk all we want, but an entire plan was made to invade Japan.

Over 500,000 Purple Heart Medals were manufactured just on the anticipation of casualties, and look still today the US has not used it all up yet.

And YES, Japan did refuse to surrender after being told they would face utter and prompt destruction otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

^ Read.

So don't blame it on the US government, rather blame it on Japan's idiotic and careless government.

[Lip Job]

Rofl ur using wikipedia for ur arguments.. Thats were i draw the line

Lets just forget bout ww2

[Smush]

Rofl ur using wikipedia for ur arguments.. Thats were i draw the line

Lets just forget bout ww2

This is where I draw the line.

[Gareth l Rare]

^he shoots he scores

1 - 0 to smush.....

[d72]

I wouldn't say worst.

Had the Atomic Bombs not been dropped then a massive 1 million+ US soldiers would have had to invade Japan to take over Tokyo. The Japanese believed fighting to the death was the most honorable, so they would have fought with anything from poles,sticks,knives, any type of house hold weapon to the death. Bushido code. Look it up.

To die for the emperor.

Hundreds of thousands possibly into the millions would have died.

The US issued multiple warnings to Japan that something "BIG" would happen, face the consequences.

Tell me would you rather saves millions dropping two bombs?

Or would you rather let millions die just because you didn't want to drop the bomb?

Your choice.

Gotta step in here, chief

Actually, as a matter of fact by the time the Nazis surrendered Japan was practically under seige and failing miserably on a dramatic scale; their supply routes were completely cut off by the US, and they were susceptible to mass nightly firebombings of many of their major cities, Tokyo being an example. Also, the Soviets were ready to go ahead and advance on Japan after the Nazis surrendered, but Truman was all like "Chill the fuck out, I got this"

It wasn't that the Japanese were resisting surrender and threatening the Americans at all; they weren't responding.

So essentially, Japan was already on the verge of losing whatever resistance they had left; the Americans just curbstomped them to make it official lol

Naw. They would've most likely fought to death. Like I said, see the Bushido code and that was the kind of mentality the citizens of Japan had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

^ This is Operation Curb Stomp. The planned invasion of Japan, mass casualties, WAY MORE than the atomic bombs casualties combined. What's the difference between the fire bombings of Tokyo and the atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The fire bombings in Tokyo killed more people immediately than the bombs casualties combined. We can talk all we want, but an entire plan was made to invade Japan.

Over 500,000 Purple Heart Medals were manufactured just on the anticipation of casualties, and look still today the US has not used it all up yet.

And YES, Japan did refuse to surrender after being told they would face utter and prompt destruction otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

^ Read.

So don't blame it on the US government, rather blame it on Japan's idiotic and careless government.

Lol you're referencing Wikipedia?

Regardless...

Operation Downfall was the overall Allied plan for the invasion of Japan near the end of World War II. The operation was cancelled when Japan surrendered after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Soviet Union's declaration of war against Japan

It was quite clear to Truman that Japan was being targeted by the USSR; evidently he didn't have to drop the bombs as the United States would have had Russian allies going into Japan, if the invasion was even needed considering that Japan was already failing regardless of fighting or not.

The bombs were a travesty to humanity, and ultimately they were used to shed the first spark in the Cold War.

[Smush]

And no, all the top ranking leaders in Japan never even considered surrendering. So there goes that plan. They already prepared for an invasion and had defenses set up in preparation. I agree that the atomic bombs after the first use are a travesty due to the dangerous nature, but you have to remember no one expected those kind of effects and no one even knew about nuclear fallout. What's done is done.

Japan is now a prosperous nation with the 3rd highest GDP in the WORLD.

they were used to shed the first spark in the Cold War.

What ever happened to that? Oh right the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Who won the Cold War?

edit: Oh yeah 1-0.