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Still doesn't answer any of the unknowns, but sure you're entitled to your opinion.

Plus I love how you called the overwhelming majority of the Earth "weak" but alas, that is also your opinion.

I honestly don't even see what's wrong with being a Christian anymore.

I guess people these days can never be satisfied.

What's wrong with love? Peace? Respect? Morals? Values?

That's all right. In due time.

What's wrong is that behind all those good values, you believe there is a "god", which as i said, is just a lie written a few thousand years ago. Yes it is my opinion, but it's an opinion based on intelligence, anyone who can accept that there doesn't need to be some "god", for all this to happen, is clearly more intelligent to some sheep who lets a fucking book tell them what to believe.

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We haven't even stepped on Mars, but now we decide the origin of the universe? I don't like people giving up just because the answer isn't right in front of us in the form of a proper answer. There are things beyond our control, there are things science can't explain, and even the greatest scientists of all time have believed in SOMETHING.

We don't know the origin of the universe. We know the type of event that took place to get us to where we are today (I am speaking of the Big Bang, of course). Proclaiming that god is the answer is giving up; science admits that it doesn't know and pursues the answer. Science is a tool to objectively qualify hypothesese, so to say that there are things that science can't explain is nonsensical.

You like physics? Albert Einstein, one of the great physicists/scientists to ever live believed in a higher power.

No, he did not. Here is a quote of his from a 1954 letter, just one of many affirming his lack of belief.

" The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These [...] interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.

Even scientists are baffled at the Shroud of Turin.

They are not. http://www.shroud.com/bar.htm

I found nothing of substance in your argument. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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I'm sorry, but did I say Einstein believed in God? Or did I say higher power? Learn to read. You delve into things too deeply, and I feel sorry for you.

I can pull quotes out of my ass too.

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” (Albert Einstein)

“I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.” (Albert Einstein)

I'm sorry. Did I just? Oh. Jog on. No no no no ... Jog on. Ouch. I found nothing of substance in your pathetic argument. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please.

And I can't take that http://shroud.com/bar.htm site seriously. I see a flame background, and I wonder hmm, this must be very legitimate. Please. Do some research. Instead of just googling and clicking the first link, please do some research. With some legitimate sources, evidence, and recent articles from let's say reputable new sources.

Ahh you have one thing going for you though Mike, and it's Googling. Glad to know we have Google Scientists up in hurrr.

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Einstein believed in order, not a personal god. He often used god/religion as a symbol of the order which he desribed beautifully with his equations. You have done a good job of taking his quotes out of context. He was a self-proclaimed agnostic.

Even if we were to grant you, for the sake of argument, that Einstein was a devout, god-fearing Jew, it has no impact on this debate. It provides evidence neither way. (Wow that was a lot of commas lol)

And I can't take that http://shroud.com/bar.htm site seriously. I see a flame background, and I wonder hmm, this must be very legitimate. Please. Do some research. Instead of just googling and clicking the first link, please do some research. With some legitimate sources, evidence, and recent articles from let's say reputable new sources.

It is a link to a mass of peer reviewed scientifc papers debunking the shroud's purported divinty. Now, if I can hold you to the same standards, please provide some legitimate scientific proof of god's existence.

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Ahh see. Even when atheists are wrong they can never go back on their word.

Sad. Truly is.

I told you Einstein believed in a higher power.

Then you said, "no he did not"

Then I corrected you.

Then you ignore the quotes and tell me that they are out of context.

Tell me, how on Earth is this quote, “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” (Albert Einstein) out of context?

You can't, you are too hard headed to even ADMIT that you were wrong. That is the problem that I see in you. I admit I make mistakes, but I call myself out on them, you on the other hand want to run away and try to change the subject. And this is usually how all arguments with atheists go.

Atheists then usually turn the tables and say, "GIVE ME SOME EVIDENCEE OF GOD'S EXISTENCE"

Even though you have not really answered my question on the Shroud of Turin with REPUTABLE new sources, instead of a jumbled up Google search.

I'll give you one, Jesus of Nazareth. He walked this Earth. He was a living a person. Let's see you try and debunk that. Google away my friend. That's all you're good for.

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I still fail to see how I was wrong. Einstein did not believe in any sort of higher power. He believed that the universe was ordered and governed by a set of discernible laws.

So your scientific proof is that jesus was real because you said so? Proove it, please? I'm not sure how I am supposed to debunk that without you qualifying it in any way.

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And this is exactly where the conversation stops.

I ask any atheist a question, and then they proceed to make excuses instead of providing evidence.

That's not how it works bud. I asked you the question, now you have dodged it for the SECOND time.

You might be one of the dumbest atheists I've encountered, at least back yourself up.

And you're kind of confusing yourself saying Einstein doesn't believe in a higher power, yet somehow he believes in religion as proven by his quotes, letters, speeches? You even said yourself he was an agnostic. You didn't specify what type, he was an agnostic theist.

Now I'm off to bed, as Benjamin Franklin once said, "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise."

Come back when you're prepared. (Which may be never).

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...What?

You are still going to play the evidence card? When you have not provided anything yourself? I asked you to provide evidence of god's existence, and you blankly stated that jesus was real. Apparently this is quality science, but when I attempt to provide legitimate scientific papers it is hogwash?

You now accuse me of dodging questions? I addressed everything you posted, while also providing links to support my case. Yet I am the one who is incapable of doing research...WHAT?

I will ask you again to provide some scientific support for your position. If you cannot do this, then there is no need for you to continue posting.

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Benny The Leak LMAO

Im a christian and I personally believe alot of people do become christians just to get into heaven the way I see it is:

1) Why not believe? what have you got too loose by believe in god except basically sex before marriage and drugs (which you can repent at a later date when you are older if you are truely sorry)

2) You have a whollllllleeeee lot to gain in that you dont end up spending your entire existance for ever and ever burning in flames...

3) If you believe that a couple of gases created the entire universe this perfect and intricate and that meteors crashing against earth created water, then you are seriously fucked up if you find it stupid to believe that there may just be a god...

4) I think a lot of people have a hard time becoming a christian because they are soooo stuck up and arrogant that they cant believe there is something else more important/powerful than them out their.

Also I dont agree with the way a lot of Christians sort of 'Enforce' Christianity upon other people and ram it in their face, but hey at-least they aren't as bad as those bloody Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who come knocking on your door every day annoying that crap out of you

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Benny The Leak LMAO

i cant believe the world to be millions of years old after studying anatomy its to advanced to say "chance" created the complexity of life, the minimual number of proteins to create life is 250 and the odds of that are 250factorial times the odds of making a single protein.  Idk bout u but that is to much to come from chance.  Second energy in the universe decreases with time so if the earth is billions of years old for instance there would be no energy left..........

Woah, now. I don't want to sound too harsh here, but this sort of ignorance should no longer exist, especially among people with internet access.

The age of the world/universe is very well documented. We have developed very elegant methods of dating, which approximate the Earth to be 4.5 billion years. We can see light eminating from nearly 14 billion lightyears away, meaning that the universe is at least that old.

As for the whole chance thing, you must realize that any outcome is equally unlikely. No matter what the situation we were in today, it would be very unlikely, given that there have been billions of years for events to happen. However, something must happen, and that is where we are today. This argument really holds no water.

Finally, you are trying to make an argument for entropy, but you seem a little confused. Energy does not decrease, as it can neither be created nor destroyed. This is the conservation of energy principle, which is a fundamental part of our understanding of physics. What you are referring to is entropy, or a measure of disorder. Entropy is always increasing, meaning that the universe becomes slightly more disorganized or random with every event. This does not mean that it would be too disorganized today (billions of years after its assumed start). This only means that theoretically, energy will become too dispersed in the future to interact with other energy, essentially killing the universe. You must keep in mind that we are talking many trillions of years here, though. Being a mechanical engineering major, I am very familiar with this area of physics, and would be glad to answer any questions or address any arguments you may have.

To get back on the topic of christianity, there is absolutely no evidence to support it, as is the case with any religion.

As for this type of proof well... Dont even get me started on it...

How do you know your "developed very elegant methods of dating, which approximate the Earth to be 4.5 billion years" are accurate? you have nothing to test it on?

No one has travelled "nearly 14 billion lightyears away" to test if this is actually the distance?

It could be less than a lightyear away (i dont know all this science geek stuff) But im just saying

There is absolutely no evidence that the oooh so "very elegant machines" are even accurate at all...

And as for Carbon Dating...

Noone has been around for 4.5billion years how the fuck do they know the (lets just say fossil) is Xbillion years old.

I asked the H.O.D. of Science this at my school and his answer was "we know it because carbon dating tells us that"

Im not sure if anyone else sees the arrogance of some people (not saying all atheists are, infact some of my friends are very open minded about it) but just wow...

I dont see this 4.5Billion year old scale they are testing it against?

The entire scale could have been blown entirely out proportion, we have no evidence what so ever that Carbon dating is accurate.

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EXISTANCE WAS CREATED BY A GIANT MAN WITH SUPER POWERS SITTING IN THE SKY ON NOTHINGNESS, NOTHING CREATED HIM CAUSE HE IS EVERYTHING, HE DOESNT HAVE A MUM LOLOLOLOL ORPHAN, BUT ANYWAY YEAH HE CREATED EVERYTHING EVEN THO THERE WAS NOTHING TO CREATE EVERYTHING FROM HE JUST SAT THERE IN THE SKY ONE DAY AND THOUGHT I KNOW, I'LL CREATE STUFF, BECAUSE NOT HAVING STUFF IS FUCKING BORING, THE WORLD IS ONLY A FEW THOUSAND YEARS OLD, MEANING GOD SAT AROUND FOR AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE HE DECIDED HE WAS BORED OF SITTING THERE LIKE AN INVALID, AND DECIDED TO CREATE EXISTANCE, BEFORE GOD CREATED EXISTANCE THERE WASN'T EVEN LIGHT SO BASICALLY HE CREATED EVERYTHING...IN...THE...DARK, HOW FUCKING BAD ASS IS THAT!?!?!??!!? ID LOVE TO SEE YOU CREATE A FUCKING EXISTANCE IN THE DARK I BET YOU COULDNT EVEN CREATE AN ONION RING IN THE DARK LET ALONE EXISTANCE, ANYONE WHO DOESNT BELIEVE ALL OF THIS IS A FUCKING IDIOT, YOUR EVIDENCE, RESEARCH AND KNOWLEDGE MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT EXISTANCE WAS CREATED BY A BEARDYMAN IN THE SKY, FUCK ATHEISTS, FUCK NIHILISTS, EAST SIDE MOTHERFUCKER.

That's religious people, that's fucking you, that's how you sound.

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Benny The Leak LMAO

wow dog no need to get so angry?

Im just saying religions cannot be prooved/disprooved and all this "evidence" atheists believe to be real isnt 100% sound as you may believe it to be...

Believe what you want TBH im not one to ram it down someones throat

Im just expressing my point of view

(sorry if it upset you)

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EXISTANCE WAS CREATED BY A GIANT MAN WITH SUPER POWERS SITTING IN THE SKY ON NOTHINGNESS, NOTHING CREATED HIM CAUSE HE IS EVERYTHING, HE DOESNT HAVE A MUM LOLOLOLOL ORPHAN, BUT ANYWAY YEAH HE CREATED EVERYTHING EVEN THO THERE WAS NOTHING TO CREATE EVERYTHING FROM HE JUST SAT THERE IN THE SKY ONE DAY AND THOUGHT I KNOW, I'LL CREATE STUFF, BECAUSE NOT HAVING STUFF IS FUCKING BORING, THE WORLD IS ONLY A FEW THOUSAND YEARS OLD, MEANING GOD SAT AROUND FOR AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE HE DECIDED HE WAS BORED OF SITTING THERE LIKE AN INVALID, AND DECIDED TO CREATE EXISTANCE, BEFORE GOD CREATED EXISTANCE THERE WASN'T EVEN LIGHT SO BASICALLY HE CREATED EVERYTHING...IN...THE...DARK, HOW FUCKING BAD ASS IS THAT!?!?!??!!? ID LOVE TO SEE YOU CREATE A FUCKING EXISTANCE IN THE DARK I BET YOU COULDNT EVEN CREATE AN ONION RING IN THE DARK LET ALONE EXISTANCE, ANYONE WHO DOESNT BELIEVE ALL OF THIS IS A FUCKING IDIOT, YOUR EVIDENCE, RESEARCH AND KNOWLEDGE MEANS NOTHING BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT EXISTANCE WAS CREATED BY A BEARDYMAN IN THE SKY, FUCK ATHEISTS, FUCK NIHILISTS, EAST SIDE MOTHERFUCKER.

That's religious people, that's fucking you, that's how you sound.

I fucking lol'd

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Benny The Leak LMAO

Also in response to that dog...

Where did that gases come from?

Both atheism and Christianity both rely on something 'always being there'

Now whether you want to believe it was God or whether you want to believe the entire world was a random act caused by a couple of gases blowing up it is up to you...

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Benny The Leak LMAO

Yeah I dont even let the religious people in my house

They are so stuck up and anything you try and say back to them they take it as an offense and start hurling abuse back at you...

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Exactly, I can't fucking stand religion, it makes everyone act like pricks, I don't care if people believe in God or not, what I do care about is religion, religion should be something you keep to your fucking self, and don't discuss with anyone, let alone try to make other people believe your views, it's so fucking ignorant to try and tell other people what they believe in, by all means, believe in your floating man, but don't tell people who don't they're wrong. It's like I went to a memorial for my grandad who died recently, it was at a church, the cunt woman who was doing the service started mentioning non-believers, she said 'and the foolish people who do not believe' or some shit, can't even go to a fucking memorial for a dead family member without some fucking religious cunt calling me a fool.

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Benny The Leak LMAO

I definitely dont agree with threatening non believers with hell either...

Ive stopped going to church for 2 main reasons

1) Its boring as hell

2) People there can be so hypocritical

I cant stand atheists who tell me im stupid for being a christian but i also cant stand christians who tell atheists they are stupid and will burn in hell

I think its okey for people to inform people on there views so long as its not in a hateful way and the other person doesnt mind you doing so in a friendly debate :)

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It can never be a friendly debate though, Atheists will always tell religious people, and vise versa, so what's the point in debating it.

Political, and religious beliefs, stuff that you should not even bother debating.

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Benny The Leak LMAO

I find its cool as long as you have open minded mates (and also your open minded yourself) but its not an everyday discussion otherwise your right Dog

People be pullin out dah chainsaws :(

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