handguns legalised in the uk

[Animal]

shutup tauntz u vote green party u doo gooder

 

i bet u voted to let all them polish and syrians in our country

 

flipping wanker

[Camels]

 

 

If they were legalised then I can guarantee that there would be a drastic increase in crime rates in the UK.

what is this based off? just the idea that guns = crime? so why are they very few people killed with shotguns/rifles? why is their not already a major issue of guns killing people in the uk? should we also make knives illegal because they are used for killing people and i'm pretty sure more people die because of knife crime than gun crime in the uk although it is completely legal to own guns in the uk 

 

like i said the laws wouldn't change so you couldn't carry it in public they would have to be registered etc 

 

It's based on how messed up the current generation is.

 

Consider these statistics;

"... Last year [2000], 3,685 crimes were committed by perpetrators armed with illegal handguns, including 43 murders, 310 attempted murders and 2,561 robberies, according to Home Office figures released to parliament. It is the highest number in seven years."

 

Though you may argue that they're outdated statistics because they're 14 years old, if handguns were legalised then it's fairly reasonable to assume that those figures would indefinitely increase. For example, according to another article I just read;

"Gang members carry out half of all shootings in the capital and 22% of all serious violence."

(this article is under a year old).

 

If handguns were more accessible, surely gang members would also be able to access them more easily too? Which would subsequently lead to more handgun related crimes.

 

More supporting statistics not just relevant to gangs;

"The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year  -  a rise of 89 per cent. 

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold."

 

Legalising handguns would increase handgun crime rated.. It's fairly obvious. I don't think there would be any benefits to leglaising it.

 

And about your idea of legalising it for sporting activites; surely if it were easier to gain access to a firearm, it would also be easier for gangs and lunatics and others to access them too?

 

no lol like you said illegal guns were used...

 

under current law you have to apply for a license and you are only able to obtain one if you meet all criteria like reason to own one and legal background check i don't think many gang members are going to be member are shooting clubs and have a clean record and i don't think there's going to be many people that would sell guns to gang members as why would you want to risk being arrested and losing your own license? and the price a gang member would have to pay someone to risk it and buy a gun to sell them would be higher than would you would have to pay to get an illegal gun now i really don't think gun crime would rise any significant amount at  all

 

"Gang members carry out half of all shootings in the capital and 22% of all serious violence." 

 

this doesn't really say anything other than half of the shootings in london are from gang members and serious violence can be anything from GHB to murder which you don't need to own a gun to commit 

 

those 'illegal guns' wouldn't be 'illegal' if they were legalised pal.

And referring to your criteria etc; people bypass such systems all the time.

 

It would simply lead to more problems than bad things.

[Brenden]

 

Should remain illegal.

 

Why does someone need to carry a handgun with them anyway?

 

Why would you need to take it outside of your dwelling?

 

Just don't seem how legalizing them would change anything

Do you believe censorship is right as well?

 

Banning guns is a form of censorship; censoring our freedom.

Why wouldn't you want the right to be able to carry your own weapon.

When there are more weapons there IS less crime.

If someone with the intent of robbing like a Starbucks goes out to scope the place and sees one or two people with a handgun, they're not going to take the risk.

Those mass shootings that happen @ schools happen with illegal obtained guns.

 

I don't get why you guys think It's ok for everyone to have a gun, this is why there's so many gun related crimes in america it's fucking ridiculous, Americans sell guns to anyone and everyone, you guys have 30-33k reported gun related crimes each year, and you still think everyone should own a gun?

Honestly, you guys probably have a news report about a shooting every night, i don't even remember the last time i heard about a gun shooting in australia, in my state anyway, and if there is a gun related crime, It's bikies killing bikies not everyone killing anyone

You guys have enough guns you could give everyone in australia 5 each and still have enough for yourselves

[i tauntz i]

 

 

 

If they were legalised then I can guarantee that there would be a drastic increase in crime rates in the UK.

what is this based off? just the idea that guns = crime? so why are they very few people killed with shotguns/rifles? why is their not already a major issue of guns killing people in the uk? should we also make knives illegal because they are used for killing people and i'm pretty sure more people die because of knife crime than gun crime in the uk although it is completely legal to own guns in the uk 

 

like i said the laws wouldn't change so you couldn't carry it in public they would have to be registered etc 

 

It's based on how messed up the current generation is.

 

Consider these statistics;

"... Last year [2000], 3,685 crimes were committed by perpetrators armed with illegal handguns, including 43 murders, 310 attempted murders and 2,561 robberies, according to Home Office figures released to parliament. It is the highest number in seven years."

 

Though you may argue that they're outdated statistics because they're 14 years old, if handguns were legalised then it's fairly reasonable to assume that those figures would indefinitely increase. For example, according to another article I just read;

"Gang members carry out half of all shootings in the capital and 22% of all serious violence."

(this article is under a year old).

 

If handguns were more accessible, surely gang members would also be able to access them more easily too? Which would subsequently lead to more handgun related crimes.

 

More supporting statistics not just relevant to gangs;

"The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year  -  a rise of 89 per cent. 

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold."

 

Legalising handguns would increase handgun crime rated.. It's fairly obvious. I don't think there would be any benefits to leglaising it.

 

And about your idea of legalising it for sporting activites; surely if it were easier to gain access to a firearm, it would also be easier for gangs and lunatics and others to access them too?

 

no lol like you said illegal guns were used...

 

under current law you have to apply for a license and you are only able to obtain one if you meet all criteria like reason to own one and legal background check i don't think many gang members are going to be member are shooting clubs and have a clean record and i don't think there's going to be many people that would sell guns to gang members as why would you want to risk being arrested and losing your own license? and the price a gang member would have to pay someone to risk it and buy a gun to sell them would be higher than would you would have to pay to get an illegal gun now i really don't think gun crime would rise any significant amount at  all

 

"Gang members carry out half of all shootings in the capital and 22% of all serious violence." 

 

this doesn't really say anything other than half of the shootings in london are from gang members and serious violence can be anything from GHB to murder which you don't need to own a gun to commit 

 

those 'illegal guns' wouldn't be 'illegal' if they were legalised pal.

And referring to your criteria etc; people bypass such systems all the time.

 

It would simply lead to more problems than bad things.

 

yes they would be illegal if a gun doesn't have its serial number and is not registered then its an illegal gun also if you own a gun but don't have the right documentation/license and if the gun is not on your license then its an illegal gun or at least a legal gun but you are breaking the law by having it

 

and i really don't think it would cause a significant increase in gun crime because like i said its not going to be massive amount of people that own them only people that are part of shooting clubs and have a valid reason to own one and if you really want to kill someone you can use a knife 

[Pixel Pigeon]

Can own a lot of weapons with the right licensing. You won't hear any shooting because most of them aren't expendable enough to just throw. Watch handguns become legal in Australia and shit hits the fan, especially with the way the bogans act.

 

 

May as well just accept the slow decent into chaos

[Pixel Pigeon]

 

Should remain illegal.

 

Why does someone need to carry a handgun with them anyway?

 

Why would you need to take it outside of your dwelling?

 

Just don't seem how legalizing them would change anything

Do you believe censorship is right as well?

 

Banning guns is a form of censorship; censoring our freedom.

Why wouldn't you want the right to be able to carry your own weapon.

When there are more weapons there IS less crime.

If someone with the intent of robbing like a Starbucks goes out to scope the place and sees one or two people with a handgun, they're not going to take the risk.

Those mass shootings that happen @ schools happen with illegal obtained guns.

 

 

Many of those said guns are the result of legalizing them and one going missing.

 

 

I once looked into trying to get my hands on one just for the sake of wanting one, you litterally have to strike lucky in most areas here. Or make a deal with one of the Asian countries.

[vans]

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

[Mahfia]

no

[Marc]

1000% NO

[vult]

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

[nuuska]

i love guns, its not the gun who pulls the trigger

[Fred]

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

[i tauntz i]

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

[GFX]

 

If they were legalised then I can guarantee that there would be a drastic increase in crime rates in the UK.

 

[i tauntz i]

 

 

If they were legalised then I can guarantee that there would be a drastic increase in crime rates in the UK.

 

 

based on what? i understand the idea of guns = killing but honestly what do you have to back that up? people own shotguns yet there isn't a massive issue with those people killing everyone? people own knives yet not everyone goes around stabbing each other? people own cars they don't all go round running people over?

 

some people like delta/camels are putting forward good arguments and adding to the discussion and the idea that if you own a gun you will kill people isnt a argument at all if you're going to post something stupid along the lines of "it will drastically increase crime" please at least put your opinion on why or post evidence backing up that statement 

[Fred]

 

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

 

 

the argument that a large majority crime derives from desperation is not invalid. to have a higher standard of living means you are less prone to turn to crime and potentially gun violence as their is less desperation, less need for the violence. these countries have amazing health care, quality of living, average wage, and therefore their is lesser desperation to a country like america where there are vast vast amounts of people living in poverty and despair.

 

my point stands and yours attacks something I was not saying. 

 

Do you seriously believe that the ability to own a handgun is a positive thing? If so, you're exactly the sort of person who should not be allowed a handgun..

[i tauntz i]

 

 

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

 

 

the argument that a large majority crime derives from desperation is not invalid. to have a higher standard of living means you are less prone to turn to crime and potentially gun violence as their is less desperation, less need for the violence. these countries have amazing health care, quality of living, average wage, and therefore their is lesser desperation to a country like america where there are vast vast amounts of people living in poverty and despair.

 

my point stands and yours attacks something I was not saying. 

 

Do you seriously believe that the ability to own a handgun is a positive thing? If so, you're exactly the sort of person who should not be allowed a handgun..

 

you getting into a whole different argument yes you're very right crime does come from money issues/family issues i'm not saying thats wrong at all 

 

but what i am saying is those are the people that wouldn't be able to obtain a gun legally like i said it would take 4 weeks - a few months to obtain a license + would cost money to buy a gun + money to join a gun club + you need someone to reference you (police officer/gun dealer) you would also need background checks etc im saying it wouldn't be easy to obtain a gun on the idea that one day you need money the next you get your gun and rob people you would need some serious forward planning 

 

and if your next argument is going to be they will obtain one illegally then yes again you're very right however you are already able to do that pretty easy if you know the right people for probably cheaper than what it would be to buy one 

 

also that last point why would it make me a person that shouldn't own a gun? if i had a serious interest in taking up target shooting with a handgun then i would be all for legalization but honestly i don't really care if it became law either way as i have no interest in target shooting with a handgun 

 

so would i also be the type of person that shouldn't be allowed to own a shotgun since i have an interest in game shooting and think that owning a shotgun is perfectly fine?

Edited January 30, 2014 by i tauntz i

[Fred]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

 

 

the argument that a large majority crime derives from desperation is not invalid. to have a higher standard of living means you are less prone to turn to crime and potentially gun violence as their is less desperation, less need for the violence. these countries have amazing health care, quality of living, average wage, and therefore their is lesser desperation to a country like america where there are vast vast amounts of people living in poverty and despair.

 

my point stands and yours attacks something I was not saying. 

 

Do you seriously believe that the ability to own a handgun is a positive thing? If so, you're exactly the sort of person who should not be allowed a handgun..

 

you getting into a whole different argument yes you're very right crime does come from money issues/family issues i'm not saying thats wrong at all 

 

but what i am saying is those are the people that wouldn't be able to obtain a gun legally like i said it would take 4 weeks - a few months to obtain a license + would cost money to buy a gun + money to join a gun club + you need someone to reference you (police officer/gun dealer) you would also need background checks etc im saying it wouldn't be easy to obtain a gun on the idea that one day you need money the next you get your gun and rob people you would need some serious forward planning 

 

and if your next argument is going to be they will obtain one illegally then yes again you're very right however you are already able to do that pretty easy if you know the right people for probably cheaper than what it would be to buy one 

 

also that last point why would it make me a person that shouldn't own a gun? if i had a serious interest in taking up target shooting with a handgun then i would be all for legalization but honestly i don't really care if it became law either way as i have no interest in target shooting with a handgun 

 

so would i also be the type of person that shouldn't be allowed to own a shotgun since i have an interest in game shooting and think that owning a shotgun is perfectly fine?

 

 

i'm not getting into a different argument. i commented on a post about that topic, you changed the topic to your argument which isn't once i'm bothered in - i don't need to argue whether handguns should be legalized or not because i really don't value any opinion that differs to me on this topic.

 

people going through a system to obtain hand guns legally does a multitude of things... it brings more handguns into circulation, it increases the chance of shootings/robbery (even if someone does have a bit of money, passes the background checks etc who knows what they will do? you dont), has detrimental affects on societies progress as humans.

 

I don't want my kids growing up in a country where hand guns are legally obtained... I refer you back to the point, you may be for legalization of hand guns but i  guarantee that if a member of your family was shot by a legal gun your opinion would change... so change it beforehand instead of being stubborn and quite frankly STUPID

 

if you want to use guns to go shooting (my cousin owns rifles and has been shooting with his dad for years) then go ahead - they can have them at the club

 

 

my end point from my previous post is that if you are a human being who advocates legalizing of weapons which have predominantly been used since their creation for murder then you are not the sort of person this society needs in possession of a fire arm. guns are not and will never be a positive thing - just because your sole use for them is 'positive' does not mean they are a benefit.

 

no matter how many things you put into place to make sure the 'right' people get the guns, there will always be mistakes as is in our nature, and there will be death. i personally don't advocate the potential death of others whether they are strangers or not.

[i tauntz i]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

 

 

the argument that a large majority crime derives from desperation is not invalid. to have a higher standard of living means you are less prone to turn to crime and potentially gun violence as their is less desperation, less need for the violence. these countries have amazing health care, quality of living, average wage, and therefore their is lesser desperation to a country like america where there are vast vast amounts of people living in poverty and despair.

 

my point stands and yours attacks something I was not saying. 

 

Do you seriously believe that the ability to own a handgun is a positive thing? If so, you're exactly the sort of person who should not be allowed a handgun..

 

you getting into a whole different argument yes you're very right crime does come from money issues/family issues i'm not saying thats wrong at all 

 

but what i am saying is those are the people that wouldn't be able to obtain a gun legally like i said it would take 4 weeks - a few months to obtain a license + would cost money to buy a gun + money to join a gun club + you need someone to reference you (police officer/gun dealer) you would also need background checks etc im saying it wouldn't be easy to obtain a gun on the idea that one day you need money the next you get your gun and rob people you would need some serious forward planning 

 

and if your next argument is going to be they will obtain one illegally then yes again you're very right however you are already able to do that pretty easy if you know the right people for probably cheaper than what it would be to buy one 

 

also that last point why would it make me a person that shouldn't own a gun? if i had a serious interest in taking up target shooting with a handgun then i would be all for legalization but honestly i don't really care if it became law either way as i have no interest in target shooting with a handgun 

 

so would i also be the type of person that shouldn't be allowed to own a shotgun since i have an interest in game shooting and think that owning a shotgun is perfectly fine?

 

 

i'm not getting into a different argument. i commented on a post about that topic, you changed the topic to your argument which isn't once i'm bothered in - i don't need to argue whether handguns should be legalized or not because i really don't value any opinion that differs to me on this topic.

 

people going through a system to obtain hand guns legally does a multitude of things... it brings more handguns into circulation, it increases the chance of shootings/robbery (even if someone does have a bit of money, passes the background checks etc who knows what they will do? you dont), has detrimental affects on societies progress as humans.

 

I don't want my kids growing up in a country where hand guns are legally obtained... I refer you back to the point, you may be for legalization of hand guns but i  guarantee that if a member of your family was shot by a legal gun your opinion would change... so change it beforehand instead of being stubborn and quite frankly STUPID

 

if you want to use guns to go shooting (my cousin owns rifles and has been shooting with his dad for years) then go ahead - they can have them at the club

 

 

my end point from my previous post is that if you are a human being who advocates legalizing of weapons which have predominantly been used since their creation for murder then you are not the sort of person this society needs in possession of a fire arm. guns are not and will never be a positive thing - just because your sole use for them is 'positive' does not mean they are a benefit.

 

no matter how many things you put into place to make sure the 'right' people get the guns, there will always be mistakes as is in our nature, and there will be death. i personally don't advocate the potential death of others whether they are strangers or not.

 

fair enough on your first few points and your opinion is your opinion and you're against guns i wouldn't necessarily say people that own guns are stupid since their are valid reasons for guns pest control etc but like i said your opinion is yours and no one is going to change that 

 

however what you said about the rifles/shotguns what about when you want to go on a driven shoot/wildfowling/deer stalking? you can't take guns from a gun club you need your own gun to use for anything other than clays/range shooting also what if you want a gun that is custom fitted?

 

also personally if a member of my family was shot with a gun my view wouldn't change just like if someone in my family was ran over i wouldn't change my view on cars like i've said already if you want to kill someone you can use any number of things a gun is just a tool not a driving force behind murder 

[Chase]

#protection #hunting 

[Fred]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

 

 

the argument that a large majority crime derives from desperation is not invalid. to have a higher standard of living means you are less prone to turn to crime and potentially gun violence as their is less desperation, less need for the violence. these countries have amazing health care, quality of living, average wage, and therefore their is lesser desperation to a country like america where there are vast vast amounts of people living in poverty and despair.

 

my point stands and yours attacks something I was not saying. 

 

Do you seriously believe that the ability to own a handgun is a positive thing? If so, you're exactly the sort of person who should not be allowed a handgun..

 

you getting into a whole different argument yes you're very right crime does come from money issues/family issues i'm not saying thats wrong at all 

 

but what i am saying is those are the people that wouldn't be able to obtain a gun legally like i said it would take 4 weeks - a few months to obtain a license + would cost money to buy a gun + money to join a gun club + you need someone to reference you (police officer/gun dealer) you would also need background checks etc im saying it wouldn't be easy to obtain a gun on the idea that one day you need money the next you get your gun and rob people you would need some serious forward planning 

 

and if your next argument is going to be they will obtain one illegally then yes again you're very right however you are already able to do that pretty easy if you know the right people for probably cheaper than what it would be to buy one 

 

also that last point why would it make me a person that shouldn't own a gun? if i had a serious interest in taking up target shooting with a handgun then i would be all for legalization but honestly i don't really care if it became law either way as i have no interest in target shooting with a handgun 

 

so would i also be the type of person that shouldn't be allowed to own a shotgun since i have an interest in game shooting and think that owning a shotgun is perfectly fine?

 

 

i'm not getting into a different argument. i commented on a post about that topic, you changed the topic to your argument which isn't once i'm bothered in - i don't need to argue whether handguns should be legalized or not because i really don't value any opinion that differs to me on this topic.

 

people going through a system to obtain hand guns legally does a multitude of things... it brings more handguns into circulation, it increases the chance of shootings/robbery (even if someone does have a bit of money, passes the background checks etc who knows what they will do? you dont), has detrimental affects on societies progress as humans.

 

I don't want my kids growing up in a country where hand guns are legally obtained... I refer you back to the point, you may be for legalization of hand guns but i  guarantee that if a member of your family was shot by a legal gun your opinion would change... so change it beforehand instead of being stubborn and quite frankly STUPID

 

if you want to use guns to go shooting (my cousin owns rifles and has been shooting with his dad for years) then go ahead - they can have them at the club

 

 

my end point from my previous post is that if you are a human being who advocates legalizing of weapons which have predominantly been used since their creation for murder then you are not the sort of person this society needs in possession of a fire arm. guns are not and will never be a positive thing - just because your sole use for them is 'positive' does not mean they are a benefit.

 

no matter how many things you put into place to make sure the 'right' people get the guns, there will always be mistakes as is in our nature, and there will be death. i personally don't advocate the potential death of others whether they are strangers or not.

 

fair enough on your first few points and your opinion is your opinion and you're against guns i wouldn't necessarily say people that own guns are stupid since their are valid reasons for guns pest control etc but like i said your opinion is yours and no one is going to change that 

 

however what you said about the rifles/shotguns what about when you want to go on a driven shoot/wildfowling/deer stalking? you can't take guns from a gun club you need your own gun to use for anything other than clays/range shooting also what if you want a gun that is custom fitted?

 

also personally if a member of my family was shot with a gun my view wouldn't change just like if someone in my family was ran over i wouldn't change my view on cars like i've said already if you want to kill someone you can use any number of things a gun is just a tool not a driving force behind murder 

 

 

but its giving people another way to murder them haha you're missing the point. i understand guns arent the only killer on planet earth but why would you legalize something which is designed not to hunt but to kill other humans

 

you can own a custom fitted gun yeah sure why not - but kept at the gun club after closing hours maybe?!

 

pest control is not a valid reason for guns. thats like saying "look these rodents are a problem. lets give people a way to kill each other that can also kill pests"

[i tauntz i]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should stay illegal everywhere, it increases the risk of committing crimes and if you really wanted it for sports then there are shooting clubs almost everywhere around you

in sweden 1 outta 3 people own/carry a gun around and they have the least crime rate and murders etc in the world.

 

 

same as switzerland

 

 

but sweden/switzerland have much better standards of living, higher average wages higher life expectancy, crime doesn't come from people who have a very nice wage and will love long, it comes from desperation

 

if thats your argument then its pretty invalid since these people would not be able to own a gun considering all of the checks you have to go through and the waiting can be anywhere from a few weeks to a a few months depending on your local police force so its not like they will go out and come back the next day and pick up a gun like america 

 

 

the argument that a large majority crime derives from desperation is not invalid. to have a higher standard of living means you are less prone to turn to crime and potentially gun violence as their is less desperation, less need for the violence. these countries have amazing health care, quality of living, average wage, and therefore their is lesser desperation to a country like america where there are vast vast amounts of people living in poverty and despair.

 

my point stands and yours attacks something I was not saying. 

 

Do you seriously believe that the ability to own a handgun is a positive thing? If so, you're exactly the sort of person who should not be allowed a handgun..

 

you getting into a whole different argument yes you're very right crime does come from money issues/family issues i'm not saying thats wrong at all 

 

but what i am saying is those are the people that wouldn't be able to obtain a gun legally like i said it would take 4 weeks - a few months to obtain a license + would cost money to buy a gun + money to join a gun club + you need someone to reference you (police officer/gun dealer) you would also need background checks etc im saying it wouldn't be easy to obtain a gun on the idea that one day you need money the next you get your gun and rob people you would need some serious forward planning 

 

and if your next argument is going to be they will obtain one illegally then yes again you're very right however you are already able to do that pretty easy if you know the right people for probably cheaper than what it would be to buy one 

 

also that last point why would it make me a person that shouldn't own a gun? if i had a serious interest in taking up target shooting with a handgun then i would be all for legalization but honestly i don't really care if it became law either way as i have no interest in target shooting with a handgun 

 

so would i also be the type of person that shouldn't be allowed to own a shotgun since i have an interest in game shooting and think that owning a shotgun is perfectly fine?

 

 

i'm not getting into a different argument. i commented on a post about that topic, you changed the topic to your argument which isn't once i'm bothered in - i don't need to argue whether handguns should be legalized or not because i really don't value any opinion that differs to me on this topic.

 

people going through a system to obtain hand guns legally does a multitude of things... it brings more handguns into circulation, it increases the chance of shootings/robbery (even if someone does have a bit of money, passes the background checks etc who knows what they will do? you dont), has detrimental affects on societies progress as humans.

 

I don't want my kids growing up in a country where hand guns are legally obtained... I refer you back to the point, you may be for legalization of hand guns but i  guarantee that if a member of your family was shot by a legal gun your opinion would change... so change it beforehand instead of being stubborn and quite frankly STUPID

 

if you want to use guns to go shooting (my cousin owns rifles and has been shooting with his dad for years) then go ahead - they can have them at the club

 

 

my end point from my previous post is that if you are a human being who advocates legalizing of weapons which have predominantly been used since their creation for murder then you are not the sort of person this society needs in possession of a fire arm. guns are not and will never be a positive thing - just because your sole use for them is 'positive' does not mean they are a benefit.

 

no matter how many things you put into place to make sure the 'right' people get the guns, there will always be mistakes as is in our nature, and there will be death. i personally don't advocate the potential death of others whether they are strangers or not.

 

fair enough on your first few points and your opinion is your opinion and you're against guns i wouldn't necessarily say people that own guns are stupid since their are valid reasons for guns pest control etc but like i said your opinion is yours and no one is going to change that 

 

however what you said about the rifles/shotguns what about when you want to go on a driven shoot/wildfowling/deer stalking? you can't take guns from a gun club you need your own gun to use for anything other than clays/range shooting also what if you want a gun that is custom fitted?

 

also personally if a member of my family was shot with a gun my view wouldn't change just like if someone in my family was ran over i wouldn't change my view on cars like i've said already if you want to kill someone you can use any number of things a gun is just a tool not a driving force behind murder 

 

 

but its giving people another way to murder them haha you're missing the point. i understand guns arent the only killer on planet earth but why would you legalize something which is designed not to hunt but to kill other humans

 

you can own a custom fitted gun yeah sure why not - but kept at the gun club after closing hours maybe?!

 

pest control is not a valid reason for guns. thats like saying "look these rodents are a problem. lets give people a way to kill each other that can also kill pests"

 

so how would you control the population of things like foxes/rats/deer/pigeons ok you can poison some of them like rats etc but the rest how would you get rid of them?

 

so you think that you should be able to use them just have them kept at gun clubs fair enough, honestly i don't care either way like i said i have no interest in target shooting with handguns i just find this a interesting debate considering no one seems to care about shotguns etc but they all flip shit when you mention handguns 

 

and the use of guns for pest control is a one of sporting and convenience also tradition in a way i guess i mean one clean shot to the head or any major organ and its dead whereas if you poison them it could just put them in pain also traps etc can also cause suffering 

[vult]

these countries also have less minorities ;p

 

and immigrants 

Edited January 30, 2014 by vult

[Briggsy]

Definite no from me, if we are all allowed to carry guns, then the police have to as well.. it's an escalation we don't need.

Taking america as a case study is just PROOF we don't need guns legalised in Britain

[i tauntz i]

Definite no from me, if we are all allowed to carry guns, then the police have to as well.. it's an escalation we don't need.

Taking america as a case study is just PROOF we don't need guns legalised in Britain

again like i said not everyone would have them there would be very few people in reality that would own them and comparing america is just stupid they have a completely useless system unlike the uk that has much stricter rules for gun ownership and you can even argue its a good thing look at sweden/switzerland they have a great crime rate and many people own guns also what about people that already own guns? also you cant carry around guns legally anyways least not on public land