The reason why Public Education is a complete failure

[HyPnO]

Why is it completely fucked up? Why is it filled to the brim with substandard teachers? You all know exactly what I'm talking about. Most of you have been with a teacher that drones on forever and ever, gives nothing but bookwork, and does the very minimum required to keep his job. They have no personality and absolutely no incentive to make you learn more.

But wait... isn't that the definition of a teacher? Shouldn't they be exiting us to learn? Shouldn't they be inspiring us? Do you know why they do not?

Because there is no incentive for them to do any better. They get paid no matter what they do. There is no competition because the State has a monopoly on education. How do they do this?

The State does these two things to remove choice from the individual:

1) They tax your parents

2) They make Education mandatory

Alright, say you want to send your child to a private school. Great, fantastic, amazing! Good for you!

You're still going to have to pay for Public Education. The Government will take the money from your parents (in the form of Taxation) and use it to pay for the Public Schools. Does that seem fair? Your parents have to pay for your education twice! If your parents are working class people, like my mother is, that's out of the question. How can they possibly pay that much...?

How about not educating you? Perhaps you could learn a trade! There's some honorable professions out there! Schools are not for everyone. But wait... the State makes Education mandatory...  

The only choice is....

They're going to have to send you to Public School.

So what's wrong with Public Schools? What's the big deal? Well, let me give you an analogy:

I make newspapers. I go to my neighbors house, ring the doorbell, and greet him. "Hello sir, here's your paper for today! That's going to be 30$!" The man looks puzzled. "I'm sorry young man, I didn't order a newspaper, I don't want one." Well ordinarily that would be the end of the story... but then I tell him this: "Oh... sir, I'm not sure you understand. You don't have to get the paper. You just have to give me the thirty dollars. You can go ahead and buy another newspaper, but still, I need that 30$."

What's the man going to do? He's probably going to slam the door in my face and call the police. But before it gets to that, I say this: "Sir, if you don't give me the money, I'm going to have to call my friends and they're going to have to throw you in a cell. Then you're going to have to pay double! Make it easy on yourself, sir, pay me the money."

What does the man do? He's going to give you the money. He doesn't want the newspaper, but he really has no choice. He gives you the 30$.

Now, since I'm taking the man's money by force, do I have to make my paper really good? Do I have to make sure to proof read it? Do I have to make sure the newspaper is quality stuff? Do I have to do anything?

NO I DO NOT. And that's why the Public Schools are a joke. Do the teachers have to make you exited about learning? Do they have to know what they're doing? Do they have to do ANYTHING? There is absolutely no incentive to hire quality teachers. The teachers that you have now were D students back in the day. These people literally give you the bare minimum. Why? Because your parents HAVE to pay for them. They have absolutely no choice. They don't want to go to prison. They don't want to be forced to pay double.

So there you have it. That's why you're never going to be educated for the amount of money your parents are forced to pay. And even if your parents are lucky enough to pay for Private Schools, the majority of your teachers will still have been taught in the slime holes of Public Education.

So the next time a teacher tells you that it's not their job to teach you, that it's the student's responsibility to do well, have yourself a nice smile.

[Ultra]

make a tl;dr

[HyPnO]

make a tl;dr

The Government takes your parents money, for the purpose of Public Education. So if your parents wanted to send you, to say, a Private School, they would have to pay for both Public and Private schools. Many people can't do that, so they have to send you to Public School. They have your nuts in a vice grip. Send your kids to our schools or pay for TWICE for both Private/Public Schools. If you don't want them educated we'll throw you in jail for child abuse.

Since your parents HAVE to pay for Public Education, there's no incentive to make it better. There's no reason for them to get you exited about learning. That's why Public Schools teach such boring and mind numbing things. It's the reason why someone leaves school with uninteresting and useless information (such as when the Aztecs were conquered by the Spaniards) and realizes that it doesn't help them in the slightest.

[W O 12 L D 2]

I completely agree with this subject. The majority of my teachers last year couldn't give a shit if I failed or passed. I failed Science because my teacher didn't care. When I asked what I could do to bring the grade up, I did everything she said and I still manage to fail...?

My Science class was filled with a bunch of whack-jobs that just fooled around every day and it was extremely hard to concentrate since they were so loud all the time. So I have to take it again next year.

I can only name a handful of teachers in my lifetime that really cared if I failed their class or not.

I personally find everything in School boring, besides my friends. In English, we NEVER read any interesting stories. I can only say The Outsiders was the only book I ever read in school that I liked. Math, it's extremely boring but I'm very good at it. It comes natural to me. Social Studies/Civics is boring for me, I can't even motivate myself to do good in Civics. Science is boring/annoying unless you do projects with chemicals.

Anyways, I think Schools need to start listening to what the kids want to learn about instead of giving us BS classes that we will never remember a thing we learned all year.

[HyPnO]

I completely agree with this subject. The majority of my teachers last year couldn't give a shit if I failed or passed. I failed Science because my teacher didn't care. When I asked what I could do to bring the grade up, I did everything she said and I still manage to fail...?

My Science class was filled with a bunch of whack-jobs that just fooled around every day and it was extremely hard to concentrate since they were so loud all the time. So I have to take it again next year.

I can only name a handful of teachers in my lifetime that really cared if I failed their class or not.

I personally find everything in School boring, besides my friends. In English, we NEVER read any interesting stories. I can only say The Outsiders was the only book I ever read in school that I liked. Math, it's extremely boring but I'm very good at it. It comes natural to me. Social Studies/Civics is boring for me, I can't even motivate myself to do good in Civics. Science is boring/annoying unless you do projects with chemicals.

Anyways, I think Schools need to start listening to what the kids want to learn about instead of giving us BS classes that we will never remember a thing we learned all year.

Yes, yes. The problem is, we have people that read something like that and think "Oh you silly kids just suck it up and go with it. School isn't supposed to be fun, you need to do it yourself, you're not a baby anymore, stop complaining we all had to do it.".

These people never stop and think why they are saying this. Is it because it's true? Are people supposed to pay for schools no matter what the curriculum is? Is learning something that is supposed to be boring and dull, and completely taught by force? Of course it's up to the student to get the grades he/she wants, but is the teacher supposed to be sit back and watch? Or are they supposed to support, motivate, and actually TEACH? Shouldn't it be a consensual quest for knowledge on both sides?

[karma pures]

You really got to give the teachers a break they make pretty much no money for all the work they have to do and from all the shit they get from kids they deserve a break but i do agree that the teachers should be exicting to make you want to learn and most of my teachers are so its all good for me.

[HyPnO]

You really got to give the teachers a break they make pretty much no money for all the work they have to do and from all the shit they get from kids they deserve a break but i do agree that the teachers should be exicting to make you want to learn and most of my teachers are so its all good for me.

Lol, a break? How about that gigantic three month break in the Summer? What other profession can you think of that provides a multi-month break?

But this is besides the point... these people are paid with STOLEN (I think the whole stolen part is for another discussion...) and they can basically do the bare minimum and get away with it. Not to mention they are virtually impossible to fire... why? They are in a fucking union.

They're in a union! Yes, they're in a UNION! There's Unions to fight for STOLEN money?

:mellow:

[Jim]

I support this to a limit. I made a thread a few years back on FOE forums about how better off the world would be if we could leave school around the age of 12 and decide if we'd rather put the time and effort into another skill/trade.

Seriously, 7 hours per day, 5 days a week, 16-18 years. In that time you could become amazing at any sport, or even if you'd rather spend all that time learning one subject. If there were a few thousand people only learning science for all the time we spend in school we'd have cures for all known killers.

A bit more on-topic:

Without sounding like a butthurt faggot, I can say few teachers of mine cared if I passed or failed and most of them openly said to me that it was because if they don't get an 80% pass-rate from a class they have inspections and such.

One teacher told me he cared, I'd dropped IT and Geography with one month til the exams, I traded both of those for Travel & Tourism, plus Business Studies, I got told the course-work I'd done for both of those in a month was good enough to scrape a pass for both, if they were just passing me off to one side to cater to the other students I don't know, we'll find out in 6 hours when I get my results.

[karma pures]

You really got to give the teachers a break they make pretty much no money for all the work they have to do and from all the shit they get from kids they deserve a break but i do agree that the teachers should be exicting to make you want to learn and most of my teachers are so its all good for me.

Lol, a break? How about that gigantic three month break in the Summer? What other profession can you think of that provides a multi-month break?

But this is besides the point... these people are paid with STOLEN (I think the whole stolen part is for another discussion...) and they can basically do the bare minimum and get away with it. Not to mention they are virtually impossible to fire... why? They are in a fucking union.

They're in a union! Yes, they're in a UNION! There's Unions to fight for STOLEN money?

:mellow:

That aint true 3 teachers got layed off from budget cuts this year so they do get fired and it is needed money how else would we pay them for teaching us stuff if the government didnt tax us everything would suck the roads would be bad thered be no school so everyone would be dumb and many aother things would be hard in life

[katalyst]

And I the only one who ever got a cool teacher before?

School isn't that shitty.

[karma pures]

And I the only one who ever got a cool teacher before?

School isn't that shitty.

I have really cool teachers i dont know why you guys complaining

[HyPnO]

You really got to give the teachers a break they make pretty much no money for all the work they have to do and from all the shit they get from kids they deserve a break but i do agree that the teachers should be exicting to make you want to learn and most of my teachers are so its all good for me.

Lol, a break? How about that gigantic three month break in the Summer? What other profession can you think of that provides a multi-month break?

But this is besides the point... these people are paid with STOLEN (I think the whole stolen part is for another discussion...) and they can basically do the bare minimum and get away with it. Not to mention they are virtually impossible to fire... why? They are in a fucking union.

They're in a union! Yes, they're in a UNION! There's Unions to fight for STOLEN money?

:mellow:

That aint true 3 teachers got layed off from budget cuts this year so they do get fired and it is needed money how else would we pay them for teaching us stuff if the government didnt tax us everything would suck the roads would be bad thered be no school so everyone would be dumb and many aother things would be hard in life

Things would be hard without Government Programs? Do I really have to start a topic about general State Programs? Do you have any idea why you've grown up thinking of the State as this magical and all-moral overseer? One of the main problems is you are (probably currently) in State-Funded schools.

What would happen if Governments didn't provide Public Education? What would happen if they didn't maintain roads? What would happen if they didn't maintain a police force?

You haven't been involved in discussions like this because your TEACHER'S SALARY'S are paid through theft. Why would they talk to you about it? Do you know what happens to me when I question these things? I get a generic, half-baked, and completely bullshit answer like your quote. 'Oh you silly child, do you want the world in chaos? Just sit down, shut up, and be happy, you ungrateful bastard!'

So, how would these things function without Government theft? Well, let's say the Government had a monopoly on Bananas. They were the only ones allowed to sell it. Suddenly, the Government abandons their Banana Programs and leaves it to the people to figure out.

Now, you're a person. What are you going to do? Go apeshit? Go completely insane? No. If you're smart, you start a buisness. You sell bananas. The free-market will solve this problem without problem.

What does the State provide that a free-market service cannot? Why can't private companies own roads? They maintain the roads, then sell billboard space and install toll booths. Why can't there be private security firms? Why can't there be PRIVATE EDUCATION? Of course if the Government didn't exist, these things wouldn't have to be called private..

And I the only one who ever got a cool teacher before?

School isn't that shitty.

What have you to compare to it? I think it could be alot better.

Alright guys, topic closed. I'll make a new thread about Taxation later, since it really has to deal with alot more, but still deals with Public Education. If you have something to add about this topic, post it there after I make it.