9/11

[MikeQ]

Do you think the attacks on 9/11 were done by middle eastern terrorists, or some entity with inside access? Please provide some reasoning for your stance.

[Jim]

Inside job.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nufffrespect?blend=1&ob=4

[Lat]

Inside job, ive watched too many videos and im too burned out to go into detail on why i think what i think

[Steal]

lol'd at the we're screwed shoot your dog sign in the video. i'm really not sure if it was inside or not though, would really make sense though.

[Scotty|w0rst]

Hate Conspiracies shit. Too much bull shit just being talked.

[d72]

I've seen compelling evidence from both sides, so I'm not sure.

[MikeQ]

I've seen compelling evidence from both sides, so I'm not sure.

That's the stance I take as well. The extreme government secrecy makes it almost impossible to determine what happened. While that may raise suspicion, it doesn't prove a conspiracy. We may never know for sure  :ph43r:

[death]

there's always gonna be conspiracy theories for major events.

i.e.

pearl harbor- FDR created the target to provoke an attack to create national unity

swine flu- human designed bio-weapon.

JFK- CIA killed him, Lyndon Johnson killed him, etc.

the way i see it is when something bad happens people want to poke whatever holes through it that they can for some reason. it could be bad government reactions, bad preparations, activities that create suspicion, or anything that the 9/11 conspiracies say. but i personally believe that Al Qaeda did crash the planes into the WTC. there's just more information that the government doesn't want everyone to know. I don't think people in the government could plan an attack that kills 3000 of its own people. there's just extra information that the government is withholding from everyone to try to protect them. there's just too many problems with the conspiracy theories. for one:most of the theories are centered on the Bush administration. But it is not Obama's turn and they are not even the same party yet yesterday the largest military operation was launched since the first invasion in 2001.

[I C0NN0R I]

Couldn't say,I havn't even heard anyone say it may have been an inside job, sounds like propaganda, either way the US fucking fails; Terrorists don't attack without reason, i.e America bought it upon themselves, or, if it is an inside job, well the fail is obvious.

[MikeQ]

there's always gonna be conspiracy theories for major events.

i.e.

pearl harbor- FDR created the target to provoke an attack to create national unity

swine flu- human designed bio-weapon.

JFK- CIA killed him, Lyndon Johnson killed him, etc.

the way i see it is when something bad happens people want to poke whatever holes through it that they can for some reason. it could be bad government reactions, bad preparations, activities that create suspicion, or anything that the 9/11 conspiracies say. but i personally believe that Al Qaeda did crash the planes into the WTC. there's just more information that the government doesn't want everyone to know. I don't think people in the government could plan an attack that kills 3000 of its own people. there's just extra information that the government is withholding from everyone to try to protect them. there's just too many problems with the conspiracy theories. for one:most of the theories are centered on the Bush administration. But it is not Obama's turn and they are not even the same party yet yesterday the largest military operation was launched since the first invasion in 2001.

You have a point. Most conspiracies are pure speculation. However, the US government is not above killing its own citizens. This is why I believe it is possible that it was an inside job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods Operation Northwoods was a plan to stage attacks on American citizens by the CIA, dressed up as Cuban radicals. The purpose was to get support for an invasion of Cuba. Luckily, John F. Kennedy didn't allow this to happen. That is another reason why people think JFK was killed by the CIA.

[He11]

there's always gonna be conspiracy theories for major events.

i.e.

pearl harbor- FDR created the target to provoke an attack to create national unity

swine flu- human designed bio-weapon.

JFK- CIA killed him, Lyndon Johnson killed him, etc.

Michael Jackson- a little boy killed him so he could return Michael's favor he did to little boys whenever he wants to

[Ikz]

there's always gonna be conspiracy theories for major events.

i.e.

pearl harbor- FDR created the target to provoke an attack to create national unity

swine flu- human designed bio-weapon.

JFK- CIA killed him, Lyndon Johnson killed him, etc.

Michael Jackson- a little boy killed him so he could return Michael's favor he did to little boys whenever he wants to

Retard.

Truthfully I believe 9/11 was inside.

[Nick.]

I looked into this a few years ago.

I just don't understand how so many people are writing so much rubbish about conspiracies and stuff.

It was LEGIT.

[Il_0_Paul]

I've seen compelling evidence from both sides, so I'm not sure.

That's the stance I take as well. The extreme government secrecy makes it almost impossible to determine what happened. While that may raise suspicion, it doesn't prove a conspiracy. We may never know for sure  :ph43r:

Yea, I agree with you. If anyone is so fucking unhappy with our government and believes in all these conspiracy theories... they can GTFO of the us.

[MikeQ]

Ahh it's a republican *hides*

[Il_0_Paul]

Ahh it's a republican *hides*

There's no doubt in my mind that you're a liberal, who believes in conspiracy theories, after looking at your signature and how you reacted to mine... And I hope you will not conform to the liberal extremist stereotype, which would be a person who puts down Republicans just because right wingers think differently than themselves. Now in all seriousness, I appreciate your attempt to create an unbiased thread about 9/11, but I would like for you to take a step back and look at what country you're living in. If you're living in the United States of America, then I suggest that you look at how fortunate you are to have freedom of speech and, a government that is not killing you for your civil disobedience. If you're living in a place like Africa, I would question you why you gave a shit. If you're living in Iraq, I would be surprised that you had a government which created an educational system good enough for you to be able to comphrend these concepts and, to be living in a safe household with a computer and internet.

So Sir, if I may, I would basically like to know what has made your life so misserable in the United States for you to assume that our govenment would intentionally kill hundreds of their own citizens. And another thing unlike Liberals I do not directly attack the apposing view point with pointless ad hominems but ask them to back up their arguments as I am doing right now.

PS: Sorry if I made any gramatical mistakes, I typed this up rather quickly.

[brave]

after you watch this if you don't believe it was a inside job put together by our government your ignorant...

there are other videos about the trade centers just look for more...it definitely was a inside job...

[Il_0_Paul]

after you watch this if you don't believe it was a inside job put together by our government your ignorant...

there are other videos about the trade centers just look for more...it definitely was a inside job...

Watch those brain washing biased videos again? Those video prove nothing... Once again, you can leave the us if you're so unhappy with it.

[MikeQ]

Ironic how you call me a typical liberal who believes in conspiracies, then have the audacity to claim you don't use ad hominem attacks. I will provide you with the definition since it seems you aren't clear on it.

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim

Anyway, I don't conform to labels as you do. You took my sarcastic republican comment as a personal attack. Once again, quite ironic. I only made the comment because your avatar and signature so blatantly stated your political stance. It was more a mocking of your need to show others you're a republican than the act of being republican itself (if that makes any sense).

I don't care for democrats, republicans, nor any political party; as I'm not a fan of classifying belief systems.

To clarify, I stated that I am not sure exactly what happened. I do not know where you are getting this conspiratorial notion from. 

What has made my life miserable? Because our luxuries (yes I do live in the US) come at the expense of other's. For example, almost everything we use is created by asian children in sweatshops. Our resources are stolen from the third world.

There are a million things I could say here, but I think you get the idea.

Oh, and it's grammatical*  :lol:

[Berniej]

I believe what I see rather then seeing what I believe.

You can say conspiracy but in the end it can just be a bombing by Bin laden and his homies.

[Adolesc3nt]

pissed off muslims

[Il_0_Paul]

Ironic how you call me a typical liberal who believes in conspiracies, then have the audacity to claim you don't use ad hominem attacks. I will provide you with the definition since it seems you aren't clear on it.

*I have problems with the liberal extremists*

First off, I did not call you a typical liberal who believes in conspiracy theories, I just stated that I would hope you would not conform to the typical stereotype of one... which is completely different than making a outright attack towards you. I just attacked the people who you clearly said that you were not a party of, therefore removing any irony or hypocritical nature from this conversation. I'm very clear on what an ad hominem is... and I'm not sure what caused you to believe otherwise... I used it correctly in context and even if it was perceived to be slightly hypocritical from your viewpoint, my point was still valid at the time and it should be clear that I know what an ad hominem is. I obviously misconceived the sarcasm in your message which I apologize for. It just struck a nerve when you said that... I am just sick of certain comments. But, honestly, how can you blame me for taking it as a personal attack? If, someone makes fun of your family, baseball team, or any organization you may be apart of... you can't help but feel as if they were directly talking to you.

Anyway, I don't conform to labels as you do. You took my sarcastic republican comment as a personal attack. Once again, quite ironic. I only made the comment because your avatar and signature so blatantly stated your political stance. It was more a mocking of your need to show others you're a republican than the act of being republican itself (if that makes any sense)."

Yes, that makes sense, and you're right about my sig and avatar... I just wanted to start a debate. And I figured posting those pictures in my avatar and sig would spark a good one and with my opposite so to speak. Now that it looks like I've found someone with, not necessarily an opposite opinion from mine, but a different opinion from mine... I'll remove my vulgar signature pictures (*done*). Just out of curiosity, what made you think that I conform to conservative labels? And by the way, it's good to know that you're above all of us and don't side with any particular party 100% of the time. Which is good, I consider myself a moderate, despite my avatar... I'll vote for the better candidate.

To clarify, I stated that I am not sure exactly what happened. I do not know where you are getting this conspiratorial notion from.

I'm getting a notion of the kind of person you are from your signature as you did to mine. The movie zeitgiest takes a strong stance about what they believe about what "really" happened on 9/11. I don't know if you've actually bothered to watch the whole movie but the creators obviously believe in conspiracy theories. And you clearing showing how you support this movie's message makes me believe, with the transitive property, that you too believe in these conspiracy theories.

What has made my life miserable? Because our luxuries (yes I do live in the US) come at the expense of other's. For example, almost everything we use is created by asian children in sweatshops. Our resources are stolen from the third world.

There are a million things I could say here, but I think you get the idea.

And I do agree with you about outsourcing jobs... keeping them here in the US when we actually need them would be nice for all those unemployed people now-a-days.

Our resources are stolen from the third world.

Though we are exploiting them, having a job is better than not having a job at all in any case. That's the reason why I feel it's necessary to not outsource jobs, because we should keep our jobs in the US even if it's more expensive. What do you mean by this quote above?

PS: Way to change the topic. And if there is any irony in this, it's the fact that I spelled "grammatical" incorrectly haha  :lmao:

PS # 2: I wrote this while my family was having a humongous fight... Listening to two annoying kids (bro & sis) screaming in my ear wasn't helping me write this.

[MikeQ]

First off, I did not call you a typical liberal who believes in conspiracy theories

There's no doubt in my mind that you're a liberal, who believes in conspiracy theories

I beg to differ. That is indeed attacking or appealing to an assumed characteristic or belief of mine. But I'm not looking for conflict here, and it seems you aren't either, so I'll let it go.

As for zeitgeist, the first movie did contain a section on 911. However, my sig is a link to the second film, which is much better and well sourced. The first movie was created by a man living in an apartment in New York City for the purpose of showing some friends his views. He had no intention of creating a viral video. There are several things in the movie I don't agree with, but overall I would still recommend people watch it. The second movie (Zeitgeist: Addendum) is solutions-oriented and looks at the root causes of society's problems, rather than pointing out singular instances of corrpution/conspiracy. The Zeitgeist Movement is a movement to bring about change at society's base, rather than creating a violent revolution. The movement itself has nothing to do with conspiracies, but I can see where you got that view, considering the first movie does go into 911.

When I say our resources are stolen from the third world, that is precisely what I mean. The US (when I say the US, I am referring to corporations based in the US) feels it has the power to take whatever it wants, without the indigenous people's opinion even considered. If there is any sign of resistance, the country's leader is assassinated and replaced with a pro-US dictator. To use a recent example, let's look at Somalia. The reason the "pirates" captured a US citizen is because US companies steal hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fish per year from their waters. A separate coast of theirs is used to dump nuclear waste. This is the sort of thing that goes on daily, and the US government simply turns its head and pretends it doesn't see.

[Il_0_Paul]

Quote

First off, I did not call you a typical liberal who believes in conspiracy theories

Quote

There's no doubt in my mind that you're a liberal, who believes in conspiracy theories

*** Wow haha I ment to say liberal exteremist  in the first one...

*** ment to say who *probably* believes...

^^^  but whatever i'll set the name calling aside and we can get to the real issue. ^^^

I didn't realise that the boats were fishing in those waters... I was told by my local npr station broadcast that they were escorting expensive items/resources and pirates were high jacking these ships... I guess I falsley assumed that these poor african men who had familys to provide for were doing it because the local monopoly were provoked and not entirely for money... I guess that justifies the priate's wrong doings.

My point being is... the priates were lower class people... yes they could have been bribed by the local Somalia fishing monopoly (if that even exists) to take out these ships... but wouldn't it be much more profitable if you just did it on your own?

the country's leader is assassinated and replaced with a pro-US dictator.

I thought that hasn't happened since the vietnam war... I thought that

the US government simply turns its head and pretends it doesn't see.

How people run their buisnesses in the US shouldn't be up to the government... though if the Somalian government issued a complaint and our government decided to ignore it:

-We would know about it

-The media would jump on this story similar to the way sharks sniff out blood in the water and chase after it

(the media would get on this because stories not covered by other stations = more views)

-There would be an uproar in the publics view of the government forcing them to take action

I would like to see the credible source where you got this information from.

[MikeQ]

The Somalian people don't have to be bribed by anyone. They themselves are fisherman, and it understandably angers them when they see a US ship in their waters. Does it justify the use of violence? No, not necessarily, but at least you can understand where they are coming from. I don't know what the boat that they overtook was doing, but it was a US ship, and they aren't fond of the US.

The US has overthrown almost every South/Central American leader that ever came into power. Most recently, however, we all know about Saddam Hussein. He was a tyrannical psychopath who killed his own people, but the US doesn't have a problem with that in and of itself. He would not be bribed by the US, he wanted Iraq's oil to beneift his own companies. So, while people are still in fear from 911; we say they have WMD's and invade. Saddam is taken out, and now a pro-US government is being created. Ironically, the "democratically elected" Iraqi government asked the US to leave, and we said no.

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/internationalus/pirates_of_somalia.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html

http://www.njnnetwork.com/njn/?p=8414

http://www.opednews.com/populum/diarypage.php?did=12854

There are a few sources.